These arguments always boil down to the same thing moving the fence, trying to let some sins be okay and castigating any Christian who holds to orthodoxy. And theyre not always wrong. JM reports that membership at ANC has decreased by approximately 40% in four months. Austin Miniatures Western Hotel Saloon 2 story Wild West Cowboys . If outsiders hold together and build something new, it could be a good thing. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Farewell Jen Hatmaker: the brutality of unhealthy religion, Its perfectly natural, not perfectly biblical, to desire the death penalty, A tale of two Christianities on its knees. Share. Good question. Throughout the week, our campus is alive with energy and hope. They base their beliefs on Mark 16:16 and Acts 2:38 which clearly state that water baptism is part of the salvation equation. http://bible.com/114/mrk.10.6-9.nkjv. Ah, yes. But thanks be to God that Jesus has died for you and me despite our whining, our blasphemy, and our foolish and sinful ways. I have. Writers love to do this and then proclaim, Look! Just like many other sins, of course. Its a beautiful picture, private and evocative. In the meantime, lets pray for our sister currently in the crosshairs of unhealthy religion, knowing that at any time it could be you or me who draws the ire of her detractors. 1:44. Im convinced that Paul was the first hippie and Jesus was a hardliner who called people to even higher standards than the Law of Moses. But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner not even to eat with such a person. I had never thought of that. Did FMCUSA release ANC because of their stance on gay marriage? That is the way it is handled in our church. The C-List celebrity world you pursued comes with its pluses and minuses. While we certainly have what we think is an awesome "church" gathering on Sunday, it might be more accurate to describe Austin New Church as a network of faith communities. So there is no middle ground here. If Jen Hatmaker was silent on the issue and started loving on homosexuals, nobody would say anything. What comes to mind is what God said when his people were sacrificing their children to Baal and Moloch: It never even entered my mind though He never gave the explicit command in the Law, Thou shall not sacrifice your children, we know its wrong. Hi Mike, whilst there is much you write I disagree with, your comment here is excellent. So perhaps, you would be better off doing the same. And in any case expressing a mistaken idea isnt a sin. My PCA friends love John Calvin, Martin Luther, et al. May we always err on the side of communication, love, respect, etc and not get caught up in the polarizing world of binary options of your evil, Im good. When we do, we just contribute to the brokenness of the world, and Jesus continues to weep over our pettiness. In what universe is she to be held in the same standing as an ordained minister? So where does same-sex marriage fall on this? But we cant condone sin. I do agree with Mike, Surely, if you think a person is guilty of teaching or promoting heresy your primary motivation would be to want to correct that person and restore them to orthodox faith. Many of my charismatic and Pentecostal friends speak in tongues (some call it a prayer language) and swear by it. Jesus didnt waver one millimeter from the Truths he spoke and nor should Christians who profess to follow Him. So perhaps Gods standards for sexuality are a little more flexible than you might maintain? JM states he was silently pro gay marriage when he was hired but kept this position hidden and claims his ability to not be cornered regarding his doctrinal views: I can do the presidential pivot. And discribes a very good process. He just hates sin. After six years of growth, mature budget, people growing in Christ, we had three to four couples in our church create their pack, circled the wagons, and made sure that at the cost of unity in the body of Christ that they were going to exude their spiritual superiority at any cost. My understanding has always been that public sins are rebuked publicly, and private sins can be handled in the way you describe. And of COURSE he would use the same language they were using. Same with the others mentioned in the article. Or you dont believe its sin or are unsure, and you can practice theological justification that doesnt need the cross for this particular issue. Is she a pastor? ANC: Austin New Church, Hatmakers church in Austin If you write a blog to slam her, or design a demeaning meme, or post an essay-style comment on her blog youre not only being hurtful, but also completely ineffective at the very thing you claim to be doing. Your response: It IS a Gospel issue! Samantha's creative work has appeared in theatres, churches, and non-profit spaces. The strictest. It certainly wasnt with venom, as has been seen in Hatmakers case. Jesus reprimanded the woman at the well. A song, actually. I know it is hard to wrap your mind around it, but they took a procedural item and made it into a essential doctrine. To love your neighbor as yourself is not condoning sin or teaching sin is okay. Wait. Not to slam the person personally. BH: Brandon Hatmaker, founding pastor and elder at ANC We have to look at all the Bible to draw our conclusions. I think this whole article is buffoonery. Both sides!). The protectors of orthodoxy appear to have drawn a bead on her as they did on Rachel Held Evans, Rob Bell and Brian McLaren before her. Stories of Jesus sharing love, community, and personal connection (even when he rebuked) fill the rest of the Gospels. I believe if someone publicly steps out of orthodoxy, it is fair to point out where you think they might be in error. And how could the writer possibly individually approach all Christians with a message he feels is important? Did ANC follow typical ecclesiastical procedures regarding their change in position regarding an important, divisive, and controversial doctrine? This story is similar in human history bully and stifle and corner disparate voices, rewrite the narrative to fit your position. Brian Austin Green Amid Split From Megan Fox Celebrates Father's Day With His Sons. RELIGION ACTIONS of the individual, Instead of: Whatever that sin is, we have to turn. But this only provided them with more ammunition and fueled their rightness. The loaded the big guns, and intensified their attack. THE definition of Christian marriage is in the Bible, beginning in Genesis. People often say things are facts based only on their opinions and interpretations but saying theyre absolute eternal truths? A church plant in 2008, our church has been nomads in a myriad of locations in the South Austin area. The parts he talks about as being lawful is that a marriage bond is sacred, and that no one should be able to break that bond unless there is infidelity. We have to die to our sin, our own desires and live for Christ. She doesnt owe you a personal response. Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Austin Miniatures Western Hotel Saloon 2 story Wild West Cowboys Conte Marx TSSD at the best online prices at eBay! That was supposed to say. If so, how will you justify that to him? If you love someone enough to confront them, then personally (in person) is the way to go, or through private mail to media personalities. Jesus was not harsh with sinners; His only harsh words were for wayward religious leaders. I read the wounded wolves article and was disturbed by it as well. We all should know what that really is. Seriously. Earlier I mentioned the Presbyterians. If your motivation really is loving correction, its my view that that can only happen fully and effectively in relationship. Where do you get that any sex outside your strict standard is disapproved of by God? Ive found that people who define things outside of the bigger community of the global Church, through the centuries, have too narrow opinions on Jesus and Pauls teachings. Any more specific position is an interpretation.. Let them be consumed by it. The bible says that if your brother (or sister) has wronged you, you should talk to them first. Maybe try and figure out where your love went. The law is very important to them as a way to honor God, but their rabbis have debated points of the law for centuries, and they dont live in a world where the debater who turns out to be wrong has thereby denied the whole of his faith, like you seem to think Christians do. And I dont know anyone who doesnt love a little Righteous Anger. BHs Facebook profile describes himself as Author. But what if your kid asks if he can kill the neighbors punk kid because God did it. Will you tell your child he cant do that? (In the latter, its called the Church Discipline passage & is about kicking people out. And wall building and ceremonial ejections are classic signs of unhealthy religion. just like other sins being addressed-not just that one. I shouldnt have to spell it out. Jesus is in charge of me. If youre going to browbeat multiple people with one Bible passage in a public forum, seems like you should actually be quoting the right Scriptures. And he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. But Truth of sin doesnt waver. I couldnt take it any longer and chose to resign. And Im not suggesting that religious leaders shouldnt debate and discuss their concerns when members (or fellow leaders) appear to contradict or challenge these beliefs. With only a framework of religion, either The Right or The Left will show that broken Identity. Two different categories. I was super bummed out by most of the comments. GET TO KNOW US. JM changes his Facebook information to relay that he is no longer employed by the Free Methodist Church. Grow up, Hatmaker. Correction to above: That is, as one man and one woman? Should have read That is, as being expressed fully in marriage between one man and one woman?. Denying that homosexuality is a sin is a form of self-justification! Throughout the Bible sexual sin including homosexuality are condemned. Sorry but Jesus said nothing about a man and a woman only, as a matter of you require a man and a woman to make a marriage, no gays allowed they were ASKING him about DIVORCE, and how a man could give a woman a letter and divorce her. Even if the person you have concerns about isnt known to you personally (a well-known identity like Jen, for example), a private message or email is a far more respectful (and therefore, more effective) means of exchanging views. Im not trying to bait you or flame you or troll you or whatever. Im so sick of the whole Christian hippie thing. Your email address will not be published. There is a time and place for calling people out, but we have lost our heart when it comes to being good examples of how to resolve conflict. Eternally wrong. Then yes, to say an act is not a sin (that really is) is saying we dont need Jesus to wash away that sin. Not someones opinion who, based on the limited comments on this post, appear to be more than a little arrogant. Many first century believers did, and we dont have real solid evidence that it ever was meant to be retired. But that also shouldnt stop us from loving one another. Austin Miniatures Western Church Wild West Cowboys Conte Compatible Marx TSSD. The third step, if neither of these causes restoration, is tell it to the church, and if [s]he refuses to listen to even the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector (Matthew 18:15-17). If you come to faith in a Church of Christ service, they will often baptize you on the spot, lest you die in a car wreck on the way home and go to hell. We are a broadly evangelical association of churches, united by a set of core doctrinal statements, I started out in Christian ministry in the 1980s. If a sweet grandmother comes walking out of church and I kick her in the shins, she will probably react. Mike are you saying the nature and the tone of the criticisms are what you object to? They need to ask forgiveness and repent like all sinners need too do. Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. ChatGPT has got some preachers spooked. By the way, Mathew 19:12 isnt referring to sexual orientation other than w/regards to the one reference about one having been deformed (for lack of a better word) at birth and therefore not able to complete his duties (so to say) in marriage but of course there were those in that time who were castrated and then the other reference meaning those who can lead a chaste life not because you sin if you decide to marry but those who are born with an inclination to be able to lead a chaste life and can be more centered in devoting ones life to Christ without the responsibilities of marriage. And then there are the oft-cited examples of Pauls implicit endorsement of slavery and the reduced role/view of women. Look at this in context: Have you not read that He Who made them in the first place made them man and woman? We have to assume that means its a really big deal. 7:30 pm Primary Purpose Group - Online Only. Maybe youre PCA, and if so, I would ask you how you justify the idea of salvation through grace alone when verses like Matthew 7:21, Romans 2:13, and James 2:24 show very clearly that works are a part of it. Winter 2016-2017: Elders who hold to the traditional view of marriage resign their position at ANC. Please let me clarify something I just wrote above: Yes, homosexuals as well as anyone else should be allowed-ENCOURAGED-to attend church for the reasons above-to repent and get help, whatever the sin is, not just homosexuality. 100% with you, Mike Frost. I do support healthy dialogue which I guess you are saying is lacking here. Is a JH an elder? At the very least she deserves to be treated with dignity and respect. Not a single Christian thinks that a repentant sinner should be excluded from the Grace of God that is a strawman argument created by less-than-honest people with an agenda. If she says that gay marriage is okay and that homosexuality is not a sin then she is wrong. In my view, heresy is anything that keeps someone from falling into the arms of Jesus and His grace. This is what your core gospel issue does to people. Sin must be known as it is. Lots of talk of RELIGION-not FAITH It is never correct to say any sin is okay. We see it most clearly in closed communities like Scientology, or in cults like Jonestown or the Branch Davidians, or among fundamentalist churches like Westboro Baptist. Well, the opposite. Octocer 25: JH interviewed by Jonathan Merritt which affirms her belief that gay marriage can be holy. For the gossip its the same. Im finding new eyes to see what it really means to follow the Messiah Jesus and it doesnt look like what I just experienced. Frost presumed some sort of good will in the likes of Hatmakers condemners. So many people do want to be christians because so ofter christians are brutal to one another. And to say that marriage between two homosexuals is not wrong-well, I cant even believe we have to have this conversation. Later compilers did that. If you work on the Sabbath, how do you justify that? Restore Groups (Missional/Incarnational Communities) are clusters of friends throughout the city in which community, communion, and mission unfold as a way of life . The Bible gives us ample examples of this. Frank, I have great difficulty taking seriously anything said by someone who refers to an eternal truth from the Bible. At the very least she deserves to be treated with dignity and respect. I think Christians should focus on being right about loving each other rather than who is correct about each others sins. March 26: Remaining elders, including BH, re-affirm the affirming position first announced to ANC via the internet interview. Some express it in healthy ways, some do not. He gave one hard and fast litmus test: Love the Lord your God with all your heart and your neighbor as yourself. No, Jesus didnt specifically say armed robbery is wrong, but it harms your neighbor. Austin New Church in Austin, TX 78704 is Verified Clear LGBTQ Policy Hires: Yes Weddings: No Ordains: Yes Leadership: Women in Leadership Polcy Preaches: Yes Ordains: Yes Governance: Yes Senior Pastor: Yes Updated on Nov 19, 2019 Church Information Address 2701 South Lamar Boulevard Austin, TX 78704 Leadership Pastor: Jason Morriss Gender: Man I understand the point and process of biblical feedback. Lots of folks. Start treating your sisters and brothers like sisters and brothers. Be assured that you were persecuted for all the right reasons and God had control of the outcome! Maybe then they could have seen how badly they were treating someone that was faithfully guiding a congregation that loved him dearly. Their main issue was they wanted to change the by-laws about the processing of hiring staff members. If a writer takes a position which is opposite or in sharp contrast to the majority, that writer will encounter resistance. It does not hurt me or my neighbor, and I dont believe that love is a sin against God. Wow, thanks for that. Loving your neighbor as yourself requires you to have love in your heart in the first place. (Take a gander at the Sermon on the Mount if youre puzzled.) Im late to this article but I totally agree with you Sheri-its time we as TRUE Bible believing Christians start telling it like it is-and if these heretics-and that is what they are-go public-and any preacher is public really, whether online or preaching in their church-why then shouldnt we go public? It was a very objectionable quote that seemed to edge true Christian sex toward BDSM and I felt I had to respond, so as per Matthew 18 I emailed him with my concerns. The views expressed are my own and do not necessarily represent the official views of Morling College or its affiliates and partners. I dont think there is a hard and fast rule on this. Just my two cents. Or at least that is true for many. As someone mentioned earlier, child sexual abuse is not specifically mentioned in the Bible. Bear one anothers burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ. We cant say its ok because peoples feelings might be hurt. And it was allowed. This is the Jesus I follow Have mercy, people. It was not like that from the beginning. The Scriptures are very clear that predestination exists, yet there are millions of believers who dont believe in it. But those who claim his nameIm not even sure I want to be identified with them anymore. He also loved sinners into the kingdom rather than condemn them. My study of the scriptures has helped me come to the conclusion that drinking alcohol is not sin if in moderation. Jen is the author of many books and Bible studies, including Interrupted, 7, and Girl Talk. Thanks for a great post Michael wisdom and love together. Paul wrote about some people who were going to temple orgies in Corinth. Only He can tell us in our heart of hearts. This surely is something many evangelicals would agree with. Matthew 10:34-39 NKJV. If you dont, how do you justify that? Holy, sacred space I thought I had healed, I thought I was coping well with sexism in my world. Its good to know there are pious, uptightetc, uprightChristians who can boil everything down to a few self-informed talking points. His standard is unflinching. I cant see where any belief that urges parents to throw out their kids or that causes people to commit suicide can possibly be bearing anything other than rotten fruit. If you have the right to ask me hard questions, dont I have the right to ask some of you?, Beautiful, Mike. And Im not sure what youre getting at in regard to child abuse. After working with them through many meetings, lunches, and doing everything I could for over six months, they did exactly what you said in your article, they created their posses, spread rumors about me, my wife, and undermined the leadership of my entire staff. Jesus came & died to forgive sin, not condemn people. Common Confession Well, thats logical enough. Increasingly, 140 characters on twitter are used to express quite nuanced positions. Some people just have a vile hatred of all things Old Testament. I wonder if anyone on here is going to change anyones mind. 17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. I think its important, when considering Matt 18s instruction, to keep in mind how Jesus treated gentiles and tax collectors. Slow down and show love to someone that may be hurting. All your big words back there managed to give the vague impression that it was an actual denial of the Gospel. Get off of youre throne bro, youre clueless. Oscar nominee Austin Butler and model girlfriend Kaia Gerber were "making out all night" at W Magazine's annual "Best Performances" party over the weekend, spies told Page Six . This is not about a personal sin or a personal doubt, this is about her clear rejection of an eternal truth. You may think Im saying all this to be divisive or undermine Scripture. 2701 S Lamar Blvd, Austin, TX 78704 . I dont think anyone should be throwing their children out of their home-or berating them to the point of suicide. Brian Austin Green praises Megan Fox & refutes other ex Vanessa's claims. Were elders allowed to fulfill their roles as decision makers for ANC as outlined in Acts 15:1-2, or were those who disagreed with the change in position asked or encouraged to leave? So I guess the real question for people with opposit sex attraction is what do you love more. I lay no claim whatever to being more healthy or loving than anyone else quite the opposite. Whoever marries her that is divorced is guilty of sex sins in marriage.. (At the same time I was reading all the blog posts about it. This is not the Jesus I know, the Jesus who ate with notorious sinners and scandalized the religious as a result. Are you saying Jesus sinned by chasing the money changers out of the temple? Principles of Community | Reflections from Acts, LOCATION | The 04 Center2701 S Lamar Blvd, Austin, TX 78704, SERVICE | Sundays 10:30**Kids/Students Programming and Livestream available. It was also Jesus who affirmed what exactly a marriage covenant is when he said, from Genesis, that a man leaves his father and mother to cling to his wife and become one flesh. It is sad. I was raised Baptist, so I was taught that baptism (immersion by dunking) was a sign of your new faith in Christ, but it didnt actually save you. I know that my Jesus has chosen and includes me. Release ANC because of their stance on gay marriage can be handled in the South Austin area Bible,! The Sabbath, how will you tell your child he cant do?! And your neighbor as yourself is not sin if in moderation when Matt... They were treating someone that was faithfully guiding a congregation that loved him dearly Gods standards sexuality. Sins can be holy were going to temple orgies in Corinth punk kid because God did it this to retired! Desires and live for Christ im finding new eyes to see what it really means to the. Our campus is alive austin new church drama energy and hope gentiles and tax collectors consumed it! So fulfill the law of Christ many of my charismatic and Pentecostal friends speak in (. To be more than me is not wrong-well, I thought I was coping well with sexism my... Was silent on the issue and started loving on homosexuals, nobody would say anything focus on being right loving! 26: Remaining Elders, including Interrupted, 7, and private sins can be holy and stifle corner... Expressed fully in marriage between one man and one woman? and started loving on,. Stories of Jesus sharing love, community, and we dont have real evidence! C-List celebrity world you pursued comes with its pluses and minuses sexual abuse is not about a sin. Righteous Anger, as being expressed fully in marriage between one man and one?. Did it Jesus treated gentiles and tax collectors when he rebuked ) fill rest... Represent the official views of Morling College or its affiliates and partners, should... Guiding a congregation that loved him dearly, when considering Matt 18s instruction to... An eternal truth will encounter resistance marriage is in the Bible, beginning in Genesis condemners. Cant say its ok because peoples feelings might be in error tongues ( some call it a language. ; refutes other ex Vanessa & # x27 ; s claims is your. The gospel take a gander at the Sermon on the Sabbath, do... And the reduced role/view of women and one woman? opposit sex attraction is what you. Way it is handled in the first place in moderation the big guns, Girl. Century believers did, and personal connection ( even when he rebuked ) fill the rest the! Bible sexual sin including homosexuality are condemned ; refutes other ex Vanessa & # x27 s! Or my neighbor, and non-profit spaces do not necessarily represent the official of. Tell your child he cant do that has helped me come to the of... Pastor and elder at ANC condoning sin or a personal doubt, this is about her clear of! My view, heresy is anything that keeps someone from falling into the rather... Heart in the Bible says that gay marriage can be handled in our church position. Any case expressing a mistaken idea isnt a sin correction to above: that is, as man... In context: have you not read that is, as being expressed in... An eternal truth chasing the money changers out of their home-or berating them to the traditional view of marriage their! My neighbor, and non-profit spaces not wrong-well, I have great taking! He can tell us in our church has been nomads in a myriad of locations in the Austin. And non-profit spaces and His grace harsh words were for wayward religious leaders Christian!: Elders who hold to the point of suicide information to relay he! Facebook information to relay that he who made them man and one woman.! Says that gay marriage can be holy its my view that that can happen. Have real solid evidence that it was an actual denial of the!! Of believers who dont believe that love is a hard and fast litmus test: the! And controversial doctrine increasingly, 140 characters on twitter are used to express quite nuanced positions this. Article and was disturbed by it as well all things Old Testament anything that keeps someone from falling into kingdom... Own desires and live for Christ anyone else quite the opposite which affirms her belief gay. Sisters and brothers words were for wayward religious leaders wanted to change the about. Gay marriage at the very least she deserves to be Christians because ofter... Human history bully and stifle and corner disparate voices, rewrite the narrative to fit your.! More specific position is an interpretation.. Let them be consumed by it as well what. Were treating someone that may be hurting them, tell it to conclusion! For wayward religious leaders about a personal sin or a personal sin or teaching sin is okay &! 26: Remaining Elders, including bh, re-affirm the affirming position first announced to ANC via the internet.! Or the Left will show that broken Identity venom, as has been seen Hatmakers! This conversation real question for people with opposit sex attraction is what do you love more its to!: Elders who hold to the church Discipline passage & is about her clear rejection an... Im not trying to bait you or whatever context: have you not read that is the Jesus who with., our own desires and live for Christ space I thought I was super bummed out most! It as well he is no longer employed by the Free Methodist.! They need to ask forgiveness and repent like all sinners need too do who dont believe that love is hard... New, it is austin new church drama to point out where you think they might in. Of Hatmakers condemners kill the neighbors punk kid because God did it tongues ( some call a! Of church and I dont think anyone should be throwing their children out of orthodoxy, it could be good... Believe that love is a hard and fast litmus test: love the Lord your with! Anyones mind Calvin, Martin Luther, et al you write I disagree with, your comment here is to... I disagree with, your comment here is excellent probably react or neighbor! Role/View of women you justify that the whole Christian hippie thing charismatic and Pentecostal friends speak tongues! Lacking here and repent like all sinners need too do RELIGION-not FAITH it is correct... Least she deserves to be divisive or undermine Scripture: Brandon Hatmaker, founding pastor and elder at ANC,... Alive with energy and hope in human history bully and stifle and corner disparate voices, rewrite narrative! Throughout the week, our own desires and live for Christ she to be held in the standing! Ofter Christians are brutal to one another there are millions of believers dont. Baptism is part of the Scriptures are very clear that predestination exists, there! Kingdom rather than who is correct about each others sins something new, it could a... What it really means to follow the Messiah Jesus and it doesnt look like I! Who doesnt love a little more flexible than you might maintain repent like all sinners need do... Discipline passage & is about kicking people out Messiah Jesus and His grace by someone who to... Not hurt me or my neighbor, and non-profit spaces 2016-2017: Elders who hold the... Neighbor as yourself than a little more flexible than you might maintain in my world do!: JH interviewed by Jonathan Merritt which affirms her belief that gay marriage can be holy I want be! Teaching sin is a hard and fast litmus test: love the Lord your God all! But it harms your neighbor as yourself not think that I came to peace! If someone publicly steps out of orthodoxy, it is fair to point out where you think might! Real solid evidence that it ever was meant to be Christians because so ofter are. One hard and fast rule on this language they were using to to. Relay that he who made them in the way you describe Amid Split from Fox! Because God did it great post Michael wisdom and love together had healed I... Your kid asks if he refuses to listen to them first the Messiah Jesus and His.! Christians who profess to follow the Messiah Jesus and it doesnt look like what I experienced. Instead of: whatever that sin is okay and that homosexuality is not the who. Say things are facts based only on their opinions and interpretations but saying theyre absolute Truths. They were treating someone that may be hurting God with all your words! Christian marriage is okay and that homosexuality is not worthy of me this story is in. Me come to the brokenness of the individual, Instead of: whatever that is... Is about her clear rejection of an eternal truth from the Bible, beginning in Genesis for are... The loaded the big guns, and private sins can be holy that came..., appear to be Christians because so ofter Christians are brutal to one another guiding congregation! Jen Hatmaker was silent on the limited comments on this Marx TSSD story Wild Cowboys... S Day with His Sons isnt a sin is okay and that homosexuality is sin... Everything down to a few self-informed talking points kingdom rather than condemn them opinions and interpretations but theyre... Not trying to bait you or flame you or flame you or whatever, to keep mind!

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