But anyone who writes on my blog and brings such serious accusations is going to have to provide evidence, and you will be challenged. "[43] Moore responded to this stance by stating on her Twitter account, "I did not surrender to a calling of man when I was 18 years old. Elevation Church were accused of getting volunteers to come forward during the spontaneous baptism services, in order to encourage others to get up out of their seats. If that is the last word then so be it. Btw, yes Im a pastor of a tiny church and I have worked multiple jobs all 20 years I have been at the church to make ends meet. Our statement: pic.twitter.com/Rin5W7eA8x, Jenna Ellis (@JennaEllisEsq) August 31, 2021. Furtick though is unapologetic..he boasted in a sermon all the proceeds go to feed hungry children..mine!. He picked out three words from Joshua 10, 12 (Sun stand still) and turned them into a doctrine, and he peppered his performance with occasional biblical quotes to back it up. Despite the considerable influence that they all had, they chose instead to publically endorse him. I was not picking on one church: you offered Matt Chandler as an example of how mega churches get it right and I was replying to that by urging caution. Rather than ignoring these churches and individuals Scotlands born again believers need to stand up and contend for the faith. I live maybe two hours from the Village and have visited twice. New Calvinism quenches that desire, and true dedication to a distinctive Christian life.. It is indeed a blessto have a fellowship with God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit and indeed the Lord reigns. rm. Timothy Nerozzi is a writer for Fox News Digital. 2) You actually did explictly state that Matt Chandler was not a good example of how the gospel should be preached or lived. In your second post you again make the false claim that I set Dallas against Chandler. Citing Dallas Baptist because you knew a young man who went there. David, you try very hard to always get the last word and I knew that the question you asked was loaded. It is a serious breach of the ninth commandment to defame someone in this manner. And if you do wish to engage here, I would find it helpful if you answered my questions and stick to the point otherwise such threads just become a string of accusations. The writer of Hebrews 12:14 states frankly that only those who continue living holy lives will enter the Lord's presence." Where is the blessed self-forgetfulness? I hope this is mature and open enough for you! I think youve just answered your own question; how very sad. This is way more than urging caution, as you later suggested. . You also muddied the waters by dropping in a juicy wee bit of gossip about a child sex abuse scandal. Some are good, some are bad. What talent, what ability, what fantastic communication skills, what self-belief, what a tragedy! Its not that difficult to grow large congregations which teach heresy if you think size is an indication of faithfulness then why are you not a Muslim, a Mormon or a Moonie?! Not on Amazon it aint! You state, Name calling really doesnt constitute argument does it? and yet you have no problem with calling me dishonest. (Note the attempted injection of humour!). Again as an author who is tempted to mention or quote from my couple of books in every sermon, I sympathise. By the way I got your recommended book. The Amazon website only has E S Williams book on sale as 30:08.! Cool name, cool Church I knew that it was one of the fastest growing mega churches in the USA, and had heard a little of its pastor, the dynamic Stephen Furtick. [10], While at Bob Jones University in South Carolina, MacArthurs father recruited him to the Voice of Calvary singing quartet, often broadcast on Christian radio in Southern California. Opinion Page Brooks and David Bumgardner Could you tell me the difference? 3) Yes you did engage in gossip writing about a child sex scandal without context.you may not see it as such. If he has lots of money good for him, if he has a nice home- good for him. These John MacArthur reckless faith quotes will make your faith stronger. I will always call that out, and I refuse to be intimidated or bullied by those who just cry foul or moan about not being nice. They make their workers and volunteers sign a confidentiality arrangement that they will not disclose anything about the finances of the church, or they will be sued. In case you missed the news, Christianity Today is reporting on a pattern of spiritual abuse on John MacArthur's Grace Community Church in Los Angeles. [48][49], In February 2023 Christianity Today[50] published multiple instances of MacArthur's Grace Community church advising woman to stay with sexually and physically abusive husbands. This is what I mean by legalism in my original post. Ive only just seen the comments you wrote yesterday, Sunday, and again today. Are you happy with its $130 million campus rebuilding campaign? But to me that is clear what it is. Period. (John MacArthur). You call them out or call them to repentance but see no need to repent yourself. The screenshot below is from page 4 of Elevation Church's helpful Spontaneous Baptism How To Guide. To reject its claims is to call Him a liar. He argued at the time that such mandates violated constitutionally protected religious liberties. Do you still endorse it? It all depends how you measure success! His church takes in $500,000 per weekcertainly it has given $10 million over a decade to other causes, but for a congregation which is taking in over $26 million a year, that is hardly sacrificial giving. He is a ministry collaborator with . Can you forget your ministries, your programs, and your visions and instead seek to follow Christs? So it would be a bit premature to throw them on a bonfire another example of your sly prose which was unwarranted. He has misgivings about Neo-Calvinism and he gave his reasons for those misgivings. The remarks immediately following that statement seem to suggest that you are and illustrate the way in which you denigrate those with whom you disagree. He is a ministry collaborator with TDJakes health and wealth and modalist ministry, he collaborates with Joel Osteens humanistic ministry and with Brian Hustons new wave prophecy ministry. 5) Yes the legalism one still stands. If I was a young Christian I know I could have easily been swept along with this stuff it seems such an attractive message, and he is such an attractive man. It never occurs to me for a second to not fulfill it. Would you add John Piper, Tim Keller and Alaister Begg to your bonfire? Theres clearly no transparency or accountability at Elevation Church! And they aint all wrong. G White this is the mega church you are setting up as an example in opposition to Matt Chandler? This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed. [41] MacArthur compared the assertion that sexual orientation is a born trait to a hypothetical bank robber's protestation, "I keep robbing banks, but I'm a robber. The challenge (as you have already pointed out) is to warn and admonish from a place of love, and of course to pray. The Bad Sadly, whilst every church has the bad, because we are all sinners and therefore infect any structure or organization we are part of, there are sometimes churches that go much further and wander away to the extent that one can hardly call them a church at all. He concludes that he is far from the principles of the reformed faith in many ways and explains why he thinks that. You accuse them of ad hominem remarks while making ad hominem remarks about them: you accuse them of defamation but feel at liberty to defame them. And the notion that radical Islam is going to defeat the gospel is just as daft. I know of Alistair Begg from his Hamilton Baptist days but not much else. I have no idea if you are particularly legalistic or not but the type of comments you were making, most certainly are. Jenna . It can only harm true Gospel work, and promote worldliness in the churches. And if you want classic legalism try this Truly converted young believers have an inborn instinct to turn away from their previous worldly music and dress styles. Then there is the whole question of what the church is about. Why would you equate Chandler with Furtick, but First is ok? 4) Wrong on all counts. MacArthur told her she needed to model for her children how to "suffer for Jesus" by enduring David's abuse. Sadly The Lord will deal with him, and it will be very painful for him and his family. I wonder if you thought the same and you told me that in order to come across as thinking that you mentioned one which you thought was ok/good. Elevation Church were accused of getting 'volunteers' to come forward during the 'spontaneous' baptism services, in order to encourage others to get up out of their seats. or redistributed. And this is my prayerful response (after sleeping on it!) As so often in the church, sex, money and power are the real problems for many because they are the idols of our hearts. He argues that "the battle for the beginning is ultimately a battle between two mutually exclusive faiths faith in Scripture versus faith in anti-theistic hypotheses. Conclusion: And now I wait. How John MacArthur loves the Bible but not his neighbor. 1) There is no name calling followed by misrepresentative, deceitful and sly go figure! No pastor should be above reproach, there should be no untouchables in the church; even Peter was rebuked by Paul when it was necessary. I think putting Chandler in the same category as Furtick is disgraceful and totally unwarranted and thus simply ask G White to justify that. Im afraid your post is a classic example of taking a bible verse out of context and using it, whether ignorantly or deliberately to defend sin. Here is Kate Shellnut: Last year, Hohn Cho concluded Grace Community Church had made a mistake. L.A. County has reportedly spent nearly $1 million in attorneys fees and other costs since the legal battle with Grace Community Church began. John MacArthur is the pastor-teacher of Grace Community Church, as well as an author, conference speaker, chancellor of The Master's University and Seminary, and featured teacher with the Grace to You media ministry. My own view is that he didnt handle it particularly well even when forced to act. I hear the anti christ will also be a great orator and just as charismatic. Since then I have occasionally listened to a sermon, read articles and heard news programes, and watched as this Southern Baptist church has grown to a reported 20,000 plus. If I had said that I wasnt happy with any mega church, that would have been a fault as well. Perhaps then a mature and open discussion could then take place. When you are ready argue about what is being said here, not what is not being said. Follow TheWeeFlea.com on WordPress.com 4) Its also not a good idea to claim that you know the motives of someone you dont know. One other thing is that success can get to ones head. As for your other points, Matt Chandlers church eventually acted only after a number of Christian magazines and websites had highlighted their initial inaction. [4], The grandson of Canadian Anglican minister Harry MacArthur (died 1950) and son of Baptist radio preacher Jack MacArthur (born in Calgary, Canada)[5] and Irene Dockendorf, MacArthur was born in Los Angeles. I replied tongue in cheek and its unfortunate my smiley emo didnt indicate that. If we believe that the message in our books is from God, and we feel it so strongly, then we dont really need to promote it, do we? Truth in love is the biblical standardI didnt claim that you had claimed suchI just assumed that that was what you are doing. "[23][24], In 1983, MacArthur first published his belief in the doctrine of "incarnational sonship." Please do not excuse sin and blasphemy. From an economic standpoint, thats a no brainer. Do we really believe that the Holy Spirit is incapable of working, without us chiding things along? I dont do stock answers. 2) I challenge you to provide some evidence for that statement and question whether you were just against mega churches per se. [39], For example, with respect to sexual orientation, he asserted that "no one is gay" as "God didn't hardwire anybody"[40] to be gay any more than he "hardwires" individuals to be adulterers or bank robbers. Tim Keller as an anti-Christian preacher is nonsense.it is the kind of irrational ranting legalism that I was mentioning at the beginning.very very sad that you endorse it! (Genaro Molina / Los Angeles Times via Getty Images), Even as the pastor was sick, the church elder remained upbeat, adding, "Its pretty pretty amazing we have guys with sermons in their Bibles wherever you go and so Mikes going to be here.". G White had stated that Matt Chandler was not a good example of teaching or living and then went on to pass on gossip about a particular discipline case in the Village Church. to this article here https://theweeflea.com/2020/04/22/return-to-elevation/). So far there has been no evidence given for assertion. The point I made about Matt Chandler himself is that it took the pressure from outside his church to galvanise him into doing something. And not only do they become idlers, but also busybodies who talk nonsense, saying things they ought not to. . 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