Im delighted to see the recognition of Marshalls wacko conspiratorial extremism (better late than never). by Roman Catholic theologian and translator of the Catholic Public Domain Version of the Bible. But at first disagreement (my critical review of his book, Infiltration) I was immediately banned from his Twitter page and have been the fodder for his (rather juvenile and petty) insults ever since. He exalted himself above the Pope, rather than humbling himself before Christ. But the meaning of the Council inheres in the text, The world of text, hermeneutic, jurisprudence. We patiently wait, endure, and we resist.. [5], Shortly thereafter, in 2006, he and his wife converted to Catholicism. You said precisely about a schismatic slur. Its not the first time. He used the huge analytics boost his channel got from TNT and then ditched me, presumably cuz Im not Trad enuf for biz expsn. Reactionary Civil War Heating Up Over Taylor Marshall? The Spirit also works with unbelievers, such as atheists and agnostics, so that they might find salvation by loving their neighbor, and thereby may implicitly know and love God. The above three dogmas are well-established in Church teaching. But what God wants is fraternity among us and in a special way, this was the reason for the trip, with our brothers, Abrahams children like us, the Muslims. (9:16 PM), My sole issue with his Easter tweet was that he retracted his previous due criticisms of the SSPX, which I worried would nudge many of the faithful to attend SSPX liturgy, which would endanger the less-educated in the Faith, since they will more readily succumb to therebellious mindset of the Society towards VC II and towards the Novus Ordo, a mindset that is condemned by the Church. I wanted to continue, even w/ above: we were saving souls and thats all I care about: (7:57 PM), Thats why youll always see me warning against SSPX even though its trending now and him riding the wave. Mirus begins by mocking Marshall and then descends into ad hominem attacks like this one: "discussing the book is rather like pointing . And it is contrary to the above discussed dogma that no Pope can teach heresy or grave error, i.e. However, around Easter of 2020 (during the pandemic), I found a bunch of people suddenly debating each other in Catholic . Fro Taylor Marshall to T Gimordon I have listened to Taylor Marshall's videos for 2 years and became acquainted with Tim Gordon. Do you think that your enthusiasm for the new Pope erases your sins of heresy and schism? Kelly. What's the essence of their disagreement? but for all negative comments about them. I love dialogue; I care about Taylor; most of all, I love the truth. I have been sounding the alarm on him since my article, Reactionary Infiltration of Taylor Marshalls Book, Infiltration (5-30-19), and many critiques since that time. No reply. Do any have a Mandatum from their bishop to teach? He judges the Supreme Pontiff to be guilty of teaching heresy on multiple serious points of doctrine. Dwight Longenecker tweeted similarly: When Catholics set themselves up to judge and condemn popes and bishops its not long before they are judging and condemning one another. Timothy Gordon replied on 4-13-20, at 8:36 PM and 8:54 PM: Agreed. Dr. Taylor Marshall and Timothy Gordon knock it outta da park HERE. Get thicker skin. (10:31 AM), Its a boring, inconsequential, fruitless debate. I used to believe this nonsense as well. The ordinary form Mass is still valid, yet it is trashed all the time and regarded as objectively inferior. And Catholics who attend it are despised and looked down upon, as second-class Catholics. Photographed by, Careers Workplace and Religion Columnists, Recreation Outdoors and Religion Columnists, Religious Music and Entertainment Columnists, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, The Latin Mass Society of England and Wales. But in an April 2020 tweet, Tim said that his contract with Marshall was not renewed "against my wishes." It is fixable. Earlier still, on April 12th, Gordon tweeted: Im not asserting with certainty that SSPX is in a formal schism. Outward unity among the reactionaries has been fairly solid, since all alike detest and despise the pope (my enemys enemy is my friend.). But the debate should be: a) not avoided and b) CIVIL[.] (4-14-20, 4:58 PM), It is fixable. Wish ALL of them into the Kingdom of Heaven[. (10:25 AM), A) shes calling names, not me B) my daughter has brain surgery in 90 mins and many of these people want to go to war with good guys like FSSP. (3:43 PM), The point of departure was NOT receiving Communionwhich is licit all things consideredbut the apology for not just inaccurate statements about SSPX (which is great!) All this time I thought "Jesus Revolution" Film & the Sacrament of Baptism. Marshall: I think they should have said the situation of a Pope espousing in individual cases things deemed to be heresy. . I just dont want this dragging out in public. His cohort in over 100. He has helped countless people find tradition. Tim Gordon was a high school theology teacher at a Catholic school in California. Marshall: I look at this and I say: You are wrong on Luther. The SSPX equaling formal schism stuff is wrong, as far as I know. I think (all reactionary issues aside for the moment) Timothy Gordon shows himself to be acting as a Christian should (in terms of seeking to reconcile); Taylor Marshall is not acting in such a fashion. I said nothing about you or your family on here and never would! Tons of defamatory theories swirling about my motives and about the TnT breakup itself (which Marshall is conspicuously failing to correct). See the pattern there? Basically, the cause of the current quarrel is the status of the SSPX, and whether to receive sacraments from them or attend their services. It's really disappointing to see two Allies so publicly argue. Distinctions matter[.] We also look at the errors of Balthasar and his hypothesis of "Dare We Hope that All Be Saved" (a theory also espoused by Bishop Robert Barron). [2] He is a founder of the New Saint Thomas Institute, an online Catholic theology educational program, and the Troops of Saint George, a Catholic scouting organization. Yes, Dave and I disagree on stuff. He wont call back. There are two hawks in LaBelle. Tag Archives: Timothy Gordon Post navigation. (10:22 PM), Taylor, can you tell me in a sentence why SSPX is necessary when FSSP exists? Please review Rule 4 and this post before making a top level comment: I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. But I saw Josephs tweet and found it disappointing. - Timothys brother David (words in purple below) apparently started the current controversy with this tweet: This mainstream trad Catholic dalliance with the schismatic SSPX (canon 751) is beginning to endanger the souls of the faithful and it needs quashing with dispatch. That was the emotionally charged testimony of a 26-year-old woman, in the jury trial of 34-year-old Timothy J. Gordon, who is charged with two felony counts of aggravated sexual abuse, for two. Im arguing that they failed by not clearly articulating their modernism[.] Your over-the-top language overshadows any legitimate criticism you may have. You said precisely about a schismatic slur[.] (4-13-20, 12:52 PM), I reached out to [Timothy Gordon] this morning, actually. It has long struck me that the faith has never been so under attack. Check out some of their funniest moments. You bet. Therefore, he has chosen to depart from the Catholic Church. They do not teach the love of God, nor the love of neighbor. To learn about the different methods of contributing, including 100% tax deduction, etc., see my page: Thomas Splettstoesser (8-15-06):atomic structure of profilin in comlex with actin, PDB code 2BTF, cartoon representation, rendered with PyMol, Careers Workplace and Religion Columnists, Recreation Outdoors and Religion Columnists, Religious Music and Entertainment Columnists, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, About Catholic Apologist Dave Armstrong / Donation Information, Traditionalism vs. Thats heteropraxy, not heterodoxy. Pope St. Leo IX: By passing a preceding judgment on the great See, concerning which it is not permitted any man to pass judgment, you have received anathema from all the Fathers of all the venerable Councils. 2 or 3 of them. College of Saints John Fisher & Thomas More, Donald Trump's 2020 presidential campaign, "The Secret Society of Priests Who Hate Pope Francis", "Not All Evangelicals and Catholics Together", "Why it's harder to become a Catholic than a Protestant", "New priests ordained, church buildings blessed", "Why Won't The New Saint Thomas Institute Respond To Their Customers? Im arguing that they failed by not clearly articulating their modernism, The issue is that the texts are to be presumed faithful unless specifically heretical, even if their drafters used weaponized ambiguity. Lets take this offline, bro. I dont care about the business model. Im saying that formal adherence to schismatic acts is a grave peril of attending the SSPX. Because there are so many other awesome channels out there, and knowing this man publicly berated those who accept FSSP or NO in their life pilgrimage is no different than calling them rabble. Whats obtuse is a hermeneutic of intentionalism instead of a hermeneutic of textualism, Thats what we are saying: we KNOW the intent was bad. Pray for these devoted priests to remain steadfast against the summer soldiers and sunshine patriots in their congregations (who turn on them at a moments notice). You are wrong on all of these things. Its an important intellectual matter and it merits dispassionate debate. Ego kills. (4-16-20, 3:20 PM). I think it comes dangerously close. So I hope the Good Lord will make allowances for us lesser folk. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. Any position whatever on this topic cannot be heresy, as the Magisterium has not infallibly defined the answer. Why the biblical analogy of Christ as Bridegroom and the Church as Bride remains the fundamental truth of the relationship between the sexes. No. Marshall then goes on to say that God just wills the Catholic religion. "It is a mistake to maintain that woman's rights are the same as man's. Women in war or Parliament are outside their proper sphere & their position there would be the desperation & ruin of society. Sometimes they bark at perceived threats, sometimes they bark at each other, but the howling never ceases. In October 2019, Marshall received media attention for publicizing an incident at the Catholic Church's Amazon Synod in which Alexander Tschugguel and an accomplice filmed themselves removing indigenous fertility statues, reportedly of Pachamama, from the Church of Santa Maria in Traspontina in Rome and throwing them into the Tiber river. And most of these people think youre scum just for going to the Novus Ordo. When a guru, as in John Corapi falls many are scandalized, some in my parish are just now returning to the Church. I think youre, closer to my position than Taylors since both of us wont attend SSPX (for ineffable reasons, even) and yet he will, In the interest Christian unity, Id like to emphasize that I do NOT believe that. Delighted to hear that! Its quite strange, no? Taylor Marshall is a heretic and a schismatic. (5:07 PM), Im not convinced SSPX is in schismatic! I guess Taylor Marshall aint Braveheart. One has the right to defend ones reputation[.]. They acted like old buddies and intellectual "colleagues." Two laymen with a youtube channel, spreading the news about the Pachamama dunker guy, etc. As Faramir says of war: sin makes corpses of us all. But not while shots are fired hourly on Twitter and crowds watch on. We bring that up over and over on TNT. I will unsubscribe from the Taylor Marshall channel. His cohort in over 100 videos, Timothy Gordon, publicly spoke out against this, and all hell has broken loose in reactionary ranks, and we have a civil war. It's kind of disappointing to see two allies argue like this. Sep 08, 2021. Lets take this offline, bro. (4-14-20, 5:01 PM), Im fine. Taylor Marshall is a heretic and a schismatic. This mainstream trad Catholic dalliance with the schismatic SSPX (canon 751) is beginning to endanger the souls of the faithful and it needs quashing with dispatch. I think Fr Khouri might have been implying that few if any Christian Apologists are making their living by tent-making these days ,Patrick. What theyre talking about hereis formal heresy.. My Episode 71 interview with Rev. Catholics become schismatics when they reject the Pope as Teacher and Shepherd, when they reject his authority over doctrine and discipline. Only dad does. Care to say more than a drive-by insult, Fr Khouri? Its contrary to the Councils, Tradition, Fathers.. I reached out to Tim this morning. Why all the handwringing about civility? Ronald L. Conte Jr. Only dad does. I don't know what happened first, but since then, what little I have listened to from Dr. Marshall, Voris, and Gordon since then has not mentioned each other by name at all, telling me that things might not be so amicable. Thats the problem. (7:58 PM), I called him yesterday. As if this is what we need right now at this moment in history. Marshall: "I look at this and I say: You are wrong on Luther. On 15 April 2020 I documented the fracas when Marshall abruptly terminated the contract of his associate in many videos, Timothy Gordon. Reactionary Infiltration of Taylor Marshalls Book, Traditionalism vs. I watched the film Jesus Revolution last night. Oh my! I'm not sure if any of you posted this story already. The relatio of Vatican I makes it clear that the Fathers of the Council intended to assert as dogma the teaching of Doctor of the Church Saint Robert Bellarmine that the Pope cannot in any way be heretical, or publicly teach heresy. And he makes this absolutely clear later in the video: Marshall: Its like Paul in Galatians, he could resist Peter to his face, but he couldnt depose Peter. . The Patrick Coffin Show podcast features weekly interviews with A-list influencers and outliers in the effort to recover the Judeo-Christian roots of the culture. I used to watch Dr. Taylor Marshall, a Catholic theologian and blogger, quite a bit and he used to do these podcasts with fellow Catholic theologian Timothy J. Gordon. The original story was that he was apparently leaving to focus on his own podcast series or something like it and that it was a relatively amicable departure. (3:18 PM), Completely unacceptable, Taylor. And Francis gave the above statement, essentially as a reply, saying, Yes, it is Gods permissive will. The current dust-up has far more potentially serious consequences, as I will show. So he doesnt understand the Rosary, or the Latin Mass, or St. Thomas? Taylor Marshall and Timothy Gordon. any waypublic or privateto reconcile with TM is good. PS: this isnt a big deal. Taylor Reed Marshall (born March 29, 1978) is an American Catholic YouTube commentator,[1] former Episcopal Church priest, and former academic, now known for his advocacy of traditionalist Catholicism. Everyone KNOWS what the modernists were trying to do. Dont worry brother[.] Marshall then objects to the phrase in the Open Letter heretical Pope. Marshall and Gordon have each appeared on her YouTube channel, and Nicholas has interacted with her tweets more than 100 times since 2017. Timothy Gordon has come down on the critical side: I stand with FSSP and ICKSP. Hes got a good heart and weve both had a hard year. Ill continue to hope.). The SSPX equaling formal schism stuff is wrong, as far as I know. So Taylor Marshall is publicly accusing Pope Francis of teaching multiple heresies. erred by receiving the Eucharist from the SSPX on Easter; regular parishes are widely shuttered and there was no other possibility of receiving the Holy Eucharist. Marshall graduated from Texas A&M University in 2000 with a Bachelor of Arts degree in philosophy. They talk about tough things but have a good time! No one has the authority to do that, as the Popes decisions are not subject to review. (1:50 PM), Thats what we are saying: we KNOW the intent was bad. All else is minutiae, God bless FSSP! I love dialogue; I care about Taylor; most of all, I love the truth. Just ask them[.] The answer always insinuates formal adherence to schism. But youre not understanding that conciliar documents need to be interpreted under the construction most optimally faithful to Tradition, wherever possible. Reactionary Trads or Catholic Radical Reactionaries believe the following: * 1. (9:46 PM), No worries at all. Now its happening to the one who was his partner. I would never frag ya, Disagreeing respectfully is the OPPOSITE of fragging. Just defending myself with the truth. Bottom line: Timothy Gordon is clearly trying to reach out to Taylor and stop the disunity; Taylor Marshall wants no part of it. The SSPX is the only church in town that is not a total joke and does not desecrate the eucharist. Brothers squabbling a bit is the inevitable cost of abandonment by our spiritual fathers; all of us have various talents, but none of us have authority to pronounce on theological questions. We have to be able to have discussion intellectually, w/o the fomenting of the emotions. (4-14-20, 4:56 PM), I dont think you get it. It is sheer blatant hypocrisy for him to also say that no one can judge the Pope. (4-13-20, 12:16 AM). "Dr. Taylor Marshall's The Eternal City takes the reader deep into the Catholic origins of the Apostolic Faith." - Bishop James Conley, D.D., S.T.L. Yes, the Open Letter accuses Pope Francis of committing formal heresy, which carries the penalty, under the eternal moral law and Canon law, of automatic excommunication. Daves position and mine, while distinguishable, are in close enough orbit to give faithful, non-contumacious, full-communion Catholics a nice spectrum to examine and choose from. If youre tired of politically correct mediaspeak, you want to see God back in the public square, and youre not allergic to having a laugh, you will love this podcast. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxoUW3Tn01Y. Vatican II is a valid ecumenical council,yet it is trashed all the time and regarded as fundamentally less authoritative than Vatican I and (especially) Trent: even though Pope Benedict XVI (the bitterly disappointing former darling: because he resigned), writing in 1985, made it clear that Vatican II and Trent have precisely the same authority. It needs to stop. Wherever it leads. Im fine. (2:00 PM), Yes theres a new theology that needs to be rejected. Sorry Gordons, but this seems to be the only way. This sounded very familiar. Unfortunately, he ceased to be Catholic in 2019, when he committed public formal schism by saying, about Pope Francis: I resist him to his face. Also for the record, Ive never been certain why Taylor opted for non-renewal during the peak of TNT popularity. (4-14-20, 4:34 PM), I ask everyone to pray for all parties involved. Whoever writes that Patheos blog seems to be a nasty piece of work. (3:04 PM), I dont believe (never have) as Dave does that formal schism is most likely. I cant do UNITY alone. Of course, following someone on Twitter does not . Catholic micro-celebrity is wholly meaningless and mostly fruitless. Friendly reminder that all top level comments must: start with "answer:" (or "question:" if you have an on-topic follow up question to ask). I cant do UNITY alone. It is also a schismatic statement, since no one submits their minds and hearts to a Pope whom they think has said heretical things. (. As Faramir says of war: sin makes corpses of us all. Marshall: I just dont see where anyone on earth can judge the Supreme Pontiff.. Until a few months ago, Taylor Marshall and Tim Gordon were friends and cohosts of the TM podcast, for God's sake. All of us, me included. For their good and mine and all of us, Im officially ending this nasty Twitter feud. He also says that during Abby's surgery this past weekend, Taylor tweeted some private and confidential sensitive information about Tim's household, having obtained that information as a result of his (former) close friendship with Tim. And what will happen after the Pontificate of Francis, if a conservative Pope is elected? The errors are only a matter of degree here. The point of departure was NOT receiving Communionwhich is licit all things consideredbut the apology for not just inaccurate statements about SSPX (which is great!) Its destructive and wrong. Without them we would be without the Sacraments. Dont act as if fringe groups and their leaders arent the mob w/ gang bosses on Cath twitter. [27], Marshall met his wife, Joy McPherson, in 1999. (2:20 AM), My homeboy@SteveSkojec (accidentally) mischaracterized my position, which is actually schismatic attitude in many/most attendees (but not all)[.] But the meaning of the Council inheres in the text[.] Not just VC2. Imagine being me in this situation. [2][7], From January 2012 until June 2013, Marshall served as the chancellor of the now-defunct College of Saints John Fisher & Thomas More. I was being snubbed. FOR THE RECORD: HE ENDED TNT. Get thicker skin. I havent watched his video on the matter I might very well have the same criticism of him that I do of Joseph. He sent a diplomatic text insinuating there wouldnt be a call. Please take a look at this list of my books and booklets, and see if any topic interests you. Too many apologists are gurus with groupies. Whether you agree with Marshall or not, Francis publicly stated that the diversity of religions falls under the permissive will of God. No one who considers the Pope to be a heretic also submits their mind and heart to the teaching of that same Pope. Maybe, but his schism is not. (9:58 PM), Lefebvre voted for EVERY SINGLE DOCUMENT. Will do whatever I can. Home The Slow Death of ManhoodDr. T his is part 1 of a three part series on the three visions given by Our Lady of Fatima. It turns out that Taylor Marshall and Timothy Gordon have had a disagreement regarding SSPX going back to January. Please disown that, For my part, I didnt even see the SSPX debate your post caused until late afternoon. Who determines where that is? People accused me of not reaching out, which I have been for months, Did you see how many folks idiotically assumed that I havent been reaching out as a brother in Jan/Feb/March? ", "Sword and Serpent: An Interview with Dr. Taylor Marshall", "Bishop Barron, Taylor Marshall, and a Stonewalling on Hell", "The Catholics Who Hate Joe BidenAnd Pope Francis", "Infiltration: an unconvincing tale of the Church's enemies", "Infiltration: An idiot's guide to the problems of the Church", "The Devil Is To Blame: Dr. Taylor Marshall Researches the Spiritual Roots of the Clergy Sex Abuse Crisis and More", "The Long Infiltration of the Catholic Church", "Vigan Speaks: the 'Infiltration' Is Real", "Thieves steal Amazon fertility statues as synod nears end", "Thieves steal statues used at synod prayer, throw them in the river", "He Had Corona Virus and Recovered: Alexander Tschugguel talks to Dr. Taylor Marshall", "The Top 3 Reasons Catholics Will Vote for Donald Trump", "13 Years and 7 Children LaterThoughts on My Marriage", "The Eternal City: Rome & the Origins of Catholic Christianity", "Thomas Aquinas in 50 Pages: A Layman's Quick Guide to Thomism", "Storm of Fire and Blood: Sword and Serpent Book III", "Saint Augustine in 50 Pages: The Layman's Quick Guide to Augustinianism", "Infiltration: The Plot to Destroy the Church from Within", Preconciliar rites after the Second Vatican Council, List of communities using the Tridentine Mass, Institute of Christ the King Sovereign Priest, Personal Apostolic Administration of Saint John Mary Vianney, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Taylor_Marshall&oldid=1142174788, 21st-century American non-fiction writers, American Roman Catholic religious writers, Anglican priest converts to Roman Catholicism, Articles using infobox templates with no data rows, Pages using ordination template and denomination parameter, Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License 3.0, This page was last edited on 28 February 2023, at 22:53. He did so in defense of a joint letter about the popes Motu proprio, Traditionis Custodes, from The Superiors General of the Fraternity of St Peter (FSSP), the Institute of Christ the King Sovereign Priest (ICKSP), the Institute of the Good Shepherd, and a number of other Superiors General of priestly institutes and religious communities attached to the Traditional Mass (including three communities of women). (11:32 PM). Its intellectual. Civil discussion is whats needed and you wont even respond to me, privately or publicly. Is there actually a breaking point? Wow! Yeah, right. Theyre conceptually different, THIS is the real issue. Not just VC2. This shouldnt be engaged in public. You get the picture. My brand CANT be damaged by defending the ONE HOLY CHURCH against outsiders who claim my Sunday obligation isnt fulfilled if I attend novus. You are wrong on all of these things. I recently chronicled the split between Taylor. All else is minutiae[.] . (9-7-21), LIVE: Defending FSSP/ICK from Taylor Marshall (9-8-21). Meaning inheres in text, not intention. You may not stand in judgment over the Pope. This critique hinges on the implicit denial of Catholic doctrine and prudence: dismissal of the conspiracy because it is a conspiracy. Something happened to men in the last 50 years. whilst simultaneously supporting burgeoning numbers of professional scribes. This is a contemptible accusation, which reveals Marshall to be, as I expressed it on Twitter, an ignorant fool. . And thats just what it is, guessing. are the easiest: just send to my email address: apologistdave@gmail.com. (3:02 PM), [DorotaG had tweeted (4-12-20, 11:01 PM): My bishop in endangering my soul and the boot licking FSSP is nowhere to offer a real mass. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns. (3:04 PM), Nobody wants the Catholic infighting, Taylor. Of course I have sounded the alarm on Joseph Shaw, too. I must admit to my own biases in that I don't trust converts, especially those making $$$ off the church's controversies. On her YouTube channel, and see if any Christian Apologists are making their living by tent-making these days Patrick. Dragging out in Public that your enthusiasm for the new Pope erases your sins of and! Love of God failing to correct ), privately or publicly at a Catholic school in.. Expressed it on Twitter, an ignorant fool Arts degree in philosophy you posted story... A formal schism lesser folk a nasty piece of work easiest: just send to my email address: @! Good time x27 ; s really disappointing to see two Allies argue like this met his wife, Joy,... Twitter, an ignorant fool avoided and b ) CIVIL [. ] also for the new Pope your., yet it is trashed all the time and regarded as objectively inferior might have been implying that few any! Only way things but have a Mandatum from their bishop to teach &... 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Found it disappointing quot ; I care about Taylor ; most of all, ask...